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Posting SNT's legal?

 
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mstevens909



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Posting SNT's legal? Reply with quote

A US otr site is currently posting 800 SNT's (some 70 gigs worth) to it's library which is public and can be seen and downloaded by by all.


Is this legal? Will the BBC object?
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Director_General
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Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Bradwell on Sea, Essex

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your posting and welcome to the forum.

I’m sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I wanted to check my reply with a few fellow collectors first.

I think the first thing to say is that I am pretty certain I know the original source of many of the older SNT’s doing the rounds. They are very concerned that many of the recordings they shared as a ‘private’ individual have found their way onto public websites. Many of these recordings have suffered from a lowering in sound quality to facilitate web sharing.

There are also original recordings of mine that I have shared with other ‘private’ collectors that are now available on the internet and are even offered back to me by other collectors in exchange for other swaps.
The main motivation of the people I share files with it to preserve the BBC’s recordings and copyright. We believe that the BBC understands the concept of individuals recording their output for their own personal enjoyment. We may swap and share with each other, but again those transactions are private. Although it may be a breach of copyright, I believe the BBC doesn’t have too much of a problem with this, and it is a proven fact that the BBC has benefited from private collectors returning off air recordings to them. I have done this myself. The ‘Anything Legal’ series occasionally broadcast on Radio 4 Extra was returned by me.

The action taking place on these websites causes long time collectors like myself a number of concerns. In particular it is a flagrant abuse of the BBC’s property. This could cause them to have a significant crack down and try to take action against people they feel are abusing their product.

It is also the case that many of the recordings were at one time considered quite rare. They were therefore quite good bargaining recordings which would encourage collectors who were less willing to share, to part with other rare or apparently lost recordings. These recordings have in effect be rendered worthless which means that we are significantly more unlikely to unearth older SNT’s which have not seen the light of day for many years, and may be lost forever if the current owner should lose it, or die without passing it on. In all these situations those that have collected SNT’s for many years and have a genuine desire to preserve the archive, lose out to those people who just like to collect good stories.

To answer your two specific questions, I should first point out that I have no connections with the BBC and cannot answer for them. The following are my personal views.

Is it legal ? Definitely not. The works is owned by the BBC, the author and the artists. It is protected by well-defined copyright law.

Will the BBC object ? – Undoubtedly, if they are minded to they could take significant action against the offenders. They have in the past.
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mstevens909



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well what a great answer. I was ill at ease of this happening but was not sure why. It may be nice someone can get everything at once where as it took me 5 years to collect it. I can not help feel that you are correct and that we will not see many "new" SNT's in the future.

I am sure that with the way the BBC has been issuing take down orders recently this site will be hit with one soon.

Thanks for the great answer


Mike

Just for the record I was contacted by this website and was asked if I would send 70 gigs of SNT's. I turned them down.
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Director_General
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Joined: 26 May 2007
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Location: Bradwell on Sea, Essex

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike
It is interesting that the BBC is issuing take down orders.

As I said in my earlier response, I think they can distinguish between genuine collectors and flagrant abuse. I think everybody agrees that they got it wrong with the collection created by British comedian Bob Monkhouse, but you can understand their concern when these websites are doing what the BBC feared the most.
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mstevens909



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear I believe its the site Audiogo.com which is issuing the take down orders for the BBC stuff.

They have the rights to sell BBC radio Drama
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mstevens909



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it appears something has happen as said web site has posted its last SNT's and will be deleting them all this Sunday.

One of their members received a take down order so this ends as I thought it would.

I think the operator of the site thought the BBC would not go after him because the site was is in the USA - Wrong!
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grazzer



Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for coming rather late to this and first of all thank you very much for creating this informative website.

I've noticed, as I'm sure you have too, that another website in the US is now offering SNTs free to download.

Although this might be illegal, I wonder whether we aren't in a rather silly situation currently. As far as I can see the BBC has little interest in rebroadcasting many of the older SNTs - rare exceptions have recently been Operation Lightning Pegasus and Odysseus on an Iceberg -, my impression being that they will only rebroadcast older recordings they deem to be of high artistic merit. There is (or at least was) also the problem as I understand it that many "orphan" recordings were effectively blocked because the BBC themselves no longer held the rights to retransmission (having used up the limited number of retransmissions negotiated under the original terms with the creatives involved). (If this was a problem this may be being resolved under new arrangements with the IPO.)

Equally, I can't see much interest on the BBC's part in making such old recordings commercially available given the likely very low level of interest.

But despite all that the BBC seems keen to issue close down notices to websites which are offering MP3 recordings of SNT to the few of us who would like to rehear memorable plays and don't have the time or inclination to become part of a niche band of collectors. Why, when so little is at stake for it? Does it have so much licence payers money to dispose of that it can afford to spend time chasing down such a harmless activity?

You make the point that making "rare" recordings available could dissuade collectors hoarding rare recordings themselves from sharing them. I'd suggest the internet has offered a very different paradigm of sharing - look at Wikipedia - a great shared enterprise where individuals are happy to contribute their skills towards achieving something they could never create through their own personal efforts. Wouldn't a more sensible way forward be to negotiate with an enlightened BBC a once and for all licence to share openly old radio drama before a certain date - if necessary using the new IPO orphan works scheme -, put one archive on line here and celebrate those who have made the biggest contribution through the archiving and sharing of rare shows?

I should say that I have myself somewhere some tape recordings of SNTs from the early 80s including possibly some missing recordings. I would be far more inclined to share them on this basis than via a traditional collectors scheme in which I have little interest.

Just a thought...
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